<sudokode> hah <thestinger> iv597: C++ would be horrible if you wanted to actually work with other people, there are just too many ways to do the same thing and half are broken <Tom^> brotatos rebuild mpd <iv597> So, this “header recompilation” part… that’s C++ specific or does that affect C as well? <brotatos> Tom^: I don’t know how. Is it simply pacman -S mpd? <sudokode> I guess when you make claims like this FAQ, it’s no wonder that an FQA would pop up to say… whoa whoa, slow your goddamn roll <jwbirdsong> !give brotatos wiki abs <phrik> brotatos: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Build_System <sudokode> FAQ: Object-oriented programming is the best known way to develop complex systems. It was invented because customers kept demanding increasingly complex systems. <iv597> thestinger: I know how TMTOWTDI works. As seen by that anagram-ish thing… I was at one point pretty damn fluent in Perl. <thestinger> well, it’s different in C++ <thestinger> because you can’t mix things <iv597> I still don’t see the header recompilation part as odd. Coming from interpretted languages, that is. Sounds like it’d affect any compiled language o_0 <sudokode> they really lay it on C++ classes <thestinger> C++ has changed quite a bit as a language because the OOP part is so terrible <demonicmaniac3> iv597: consider classes and templates in headers <sudokode> thestinger: see perl <sudokode> I’d rather do C++ OOP than perl OOP <sudokode> BLESS THE OBJECT <thestinger> yeah <iv597> sudokode: Dunno how C++ is obviously (just learning kinda), but Perl was a hellhole… <demonicmaniac3> iv597: and consider big projects with header dependencies requiring 100 headers to be “compiled” for each sourcefile <thestinger> you don’t really need OOP in C++, you can code it like haskell now <sudokode> iv597: yeah <sudokode> moose did something to change that, and it ultimately guided the perl6 OOP spec <brotatos> Tom^: sudo abs mpd? <bougyman> it’s always had C, too <bougyman> i mean, C++ has. <iv597> demonicmaniac3: I see how it escalates, I just fail to see how the fuck this is a C++ specific issue. Sounds more C-style-language in general <bougyman> OO was never mandated. <sudokode> a lot of things from moose have ended up in perl6 <thestinger> iv597: well, I’m not sure which part you’re reading <bougyman> but OO when used properly can encapsulate and comparmentalize every bit as well as FP <thestinger> C++ compilers used to be really dumb <thestinger> they would recompile a templated class/function for each use <thestinger> or at least for each translation unit <demonicmaniac3> iv597: the problem is templates. if you lay it on thick with templates which are recompiled a thousand times you easily run out of memory and time <bougyman> the original OO concepts were targeted to the same side-effect free calculatable logic as FP is. <brotatos> How do I rebiuld mpd using abs? <thestinger> demonicmaniac3: doesn’t happen anymore <bougyman> but then came smalltalk <sudokode> everything is a motherfuckin objects <thestinger> demonicmaniac3: with gcc, clang or even msvc <sudokode> objects do three things… hold state, receive messages, send messages… <iv597> I (mostly) get that… still sounds as if C would be affected by having to recompile shit when you change other shit, but what do I know 
<sudokode> blah blah blah <demonicmaniac3> thestinger: oh? last i heard precompiled headers and gcc were still a no go <sudokode> fuckin smalltalk <thestinger> demonicmaniac3: oh, well precompiled headers are horrific <bougyman> for how smalltalk was communit-wise, it sure influenced a ton of OO protocols. <demonicmaniac3> iv597: the point is that it shouldn’t have to be recompiled with encapsulation <bougyman> luckily some stuck with better OO designs. <iv597> demonicmaniac3: Aha <demonicmaniac3> iv597: when the interface stays the same you shouldn’t have to recompile <sudokode> lol <bougyman> common-lisp, for instance. <demonicmaniac3> but you have to even if you change private members <demonicmaniac3> which is just a laugh <iv597> demonicmaniac3: Got it. <sudokode> bougyman: well look at the current state of apple… all obj-c programmers <sudokode> s/apple/ios/ <brotatos> nevermind; figured it out <bougyman> in common-lisp everything can be treated as an object but doesn’t have to be. <sudokode> I’m actually looking into ruby now <sudokode> takes that smalltalkish OO design <bougyman> ruby has tastes of that. lots of things only become objects when you act on them. like 1 it’s just 1 unless you try and call like 1.to_s, then it makes an integer object which can receive the to_s method.<sudokode> it’s kinda interesting because if you use a function like gets, since it returns a string, it can used as a string, including holding all string class methods <bougyman> it’s an interesting mix because matz blended smalltalk and lisp in it. <sudokode> lol = gets.chomp.upcase <bougyman> nice first class functions and proper lamdas and such. <sudokode> mmm <thestinger> even C++ has first class functions and lambdas <thestinger> that’s a low bar 
<sudokode> all of those words are lost on me <falconindy> even C has first class functions <demonicmaniac3> and oniguruma is just <3 <thestinger> falconindy: just function pointers <sudokode> I should’ve learned more about functional shit <bougyman> falconindy: you can pass a function around with a closure? <bougyman> ah, function pointers, sure. <falconindy> yup <bougyman> well of course C has them, many of these languages are implemented in C <demonicmaniac3> poor man’s overloading -> vtables <bougyman> C has wtf you want it to. <thestinger> you can imitate a closure with a struct + function pointer <sudokode> yawn <sudokode> all this computer talk is boring <Tom^> skid along to offtopic then :p <bougyman> the two things C lacks that keep me away from it are a good repl and real macros. <sudokode> I am in offtopic <demonicmaniac3> for the repl you have some options <demonicmaniac3> cint and ch <bougyman> yeah, i’ve seen <sudokode> oh wait, why is there so much offtopic in the main channel <sudokode> OPS <sudokode> OPS <bougyman> C just isn’te terse enough for a repl. <sudokode> lol <sudokode> bye <bougyman> gdb makes more sense. <sudokode> yawn <iv597> lol <thestinger> demonicmaniac3: and cling, which is LLVM based <thestinger> might just be C++ though, dunno <demonicmaniac3> thestinger: nice haven’t heard of that one yet <thestinger> http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cling <phrik> Title: Cling | ROOT (at root.cern.ch) <bougyman> i don’t know a single C programmer who does repl-based programming. is it even possible? <thestinger> it’s the successor to cint <thestinger> bougyman: with cling, yes <bougyman> has an emacs or vim interface, then? <thestinger> cint isn’t really C or C++, it’s just quite similar <demonicmaniac3> bougyman: ch is complete c99 <demonicmaniac3> and it’s used quite a lot <bougyman> demonicmaniac3: you’ve seen a lisper and his slime, right? <bougyman> that’s what I mean by repl-based. <demonicmaniac3> though cling with the jit and ffi sounds way better <demonicmaniac3> no more nasty fat wrapper crud <demonicmaniac3> can’t wait for vmkit to get stable enough to ditch mono and jdk <demonicmaniac3> well i’m a ruby person <demonicmaniac3> and a beefed up irb + repl is awesome too <bougyman> pry is trying to be for ruby what slime is with common-lisp <bougyman> it’s looking positive. <bougyman> i use the repl in ruby as a shell, not for repl-based programming. i like TDD (BDD) for the flow of a program <bougyman> but irb is great for like database digging and such (sequel post...@host/database instead of psql or mysql cli) <especially-corn> my u100′s realtek interface sucked big time using the r8187se module, it crashed all the time and it was really hard to get it back up so i installed ndiswrapper and it works so much better now, never<demonicmaniac3> with “ it’s also handy as a bash replacement <demonicmaniac3> bash for loops are just so verbose <hylas> yay finally got there! Thank you falconindy & john_f !! <bougyman> demonicmaniac3: yeah, it’s replaced a lot of what I used to use awk for. that’s really why I chose ruby, laziness. i get to re-use it more often because it can fit in more places. <bougyman> something like a simple shell script in c-l just isn’t at all simple. <quint> just did a fresh install but i made a bit of a booboo. i accidentally installed some cursive font while in the setup. i figured i could do with all of the fonts but this apparently is not good to do. i installe<quint> how can i remove this font? <bougyman> quint: not familiar with xfce, but it shoul dbe able to set your fonts. <bougyman> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fonts <phrik> Title: Fonts – ArchWiki (at wiki.archlinux.org) <quint> is there a log though other than pacman.log that i could use to see what i ticked off in the setup? <quint> i don’t think pacman.log shows that stuff but i could be wrong <bougyman> pacman -Qs font <bougyman> can you not see it in that list? <bougyman> pacman -Qs xorg-font <meyithi> quint: my pacman.log shows stuff installed by the installer, which was base and base-devel <quint> oh, ill just have to do a little trial and error then <quint> i selected pretty much every font available from the setup <quint> (bad move) <bougyman> you check out that wiki page? <keenerd> !give $randnick rq <phrik> phig: <Herbstluftwm> So it is not distro-specific. <sud0> yep <archtaku> Herbstluftwm: yeah but if they only have access to windows and they’re trying to install, I can see how that would be a pain <Craphter> well im on win7 <Craphter> so… its entierly ironic <allanbrokeit> you can do it from the arch install cd <allanbrokeit> so it is a competence test… <keenerd> If you can boot any iso from any distro, you can answer it. <sud0> lol <sud0> even using putty and connecting to some shell <FreeFull> Craphter couldn’t boot the CD due to some issues (and he did burn it correctly) <sud0> its not a big deal <Herbstluftwm> archtaku, Craphter: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=873651#p873651 <phrik> Title: Arch Forum User Registration is Broken (Page 1) / Forum & Wiki discussion / Arch Linux Forums (at bbs.archlinux.org) <thestinger> http://bellard.org/jslinux/ <phrik> Title: Javascript PC Emulator (at bellard.org) <thestinger> !next <phrik> Another satisfied customer! NEXT! <keenerd> Craphter: But this is why we have many ways to provide help. You could have asked here instead of the forum. The mods here are nicer, too. <thestinger> yup it works , was worried it might not have sed <Alpha-Omega> question: if I have a program running on a different tty, is there a way I can control it through a terminal in X? <Herbstluftwm> Nope, unless your ran it in a multiplexer. <Alpha-Omega> ok <Alpha-Omega> hmm <Herbstluftwm> s/(?<=you)r// <keenerd> Alpha-Omega: If it is running inside Screen, you can script keystrokes. <Alpha-Omega> and how do I get tty to show letters in something like russian, terminal does this <sud0> screen/tmux <Alpha-Omega> keenerd, nah, it’s not screen, just a question, no big deal <Herbstluftwm> !wiki rc.conf <phrik> Herbstluftwm: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Rc.conf <keenerd> Alpha-Omega: You mean utf8 on the tty? Only way that is possible is to set up framebuffer and use fbterm. <Herbstluftwm> Or that. <Alpha-Omega> hmm <Herbstluftwm> Yeah, the regular Linux console is still living back in the 1980s. It is overdue for an overhaul. <Alpha-Omega> framebuffer is the only way huh, framebuffer will allow me to play videos in tty also right? <keenerd> Yes. <keenerd> Fbterm will also give you a pretty transparent background 
<jasonwryan> I’m using this script to run a second wm on display 1 http://codepad.org/6u4P4nnQ <phrik> Title: Plain Text code – 16 lines – codepad (at codepad.org) <jasonwryan> it’s not loading the .xinitrc elements, though – any pointers? <demonicmaniac3> actually there are <demonicmaniac3> reptyr and retty <Alpha-Omega> i just tried it <Alpha-Omega> crazy how video works in terminal <Herbstluftwm> keenerd, Alpha-Omega: https://github.com/Wintervenom/Scripts/blob/master/terminal/wrappers/fbterm-tint <phrik> Title: terminal/wrappers/fbterm-tint at master from Wintervenom/Scripts – GitHub (at github.com) <Alpha-Omega> Herbstluftwm, what’s that do? <Herbstluftwm> It sets a background for «fbterm», using tinting from URxvt settings. <Alpha-Omega> lol <Alpha-Omega> crazy <Alpha-Omega> so mplayer is the only program that can use fbdev to output video in tty? <Alpha-Omega> is there a program for pics? <Herbstluftwm> Alpha-Omega: «fbv». <Alpha-Omega> Herbstluftwm, ? <Alpha-Omega> i used -vo fbdev <Herbstluftwm> ‘Tis a framebuffer image viewer. <Alpha-Omega> ohh my bad <Alpha-Omega> I thought you were correcting me, just looked it up <Alpha-Omega> Herbstluftwm, well it works, just doesn’t stretch image <Herbstluftwm> Alpha-Omega: «-f». <Alpha-Omega> Herbstluftwm, i did that 
<Alpha-Omega> i read the man page <Alpha-Omega> and it doesn’t seem to work in terminal <Alpha-Omega> but not bad <Alpha-Omega> pretty cool * Herbstluftwm also gives Alpha-Omega a bunch of kudos because he read the man page. <Herbstluftwm> I don’t hear people say that enough. <archeyDevil> Just wondering if anyone here uses bitlbee and has also used irssi-xmpp, Which would you prefure? * archeyDevil is loving irssi-xmpp atm <Alpha-Omega> Herbstluftwm, yeah I saw the option for k as well as f <phlux> web browsing in fb is a pita. otherwise, i’d never run x. <Alpha-Omega> neither worked which was off <Alpha-Omega> odd* <archtaku> archeyDevil: I haven’t used irssi-xmpp <archtaku> I use bitlbee though <archeyDevil> archtaku: Do you use irssi? <archtaku> archeyDevil: actually just switched to weechat 2 days ago <phlux> irssi+bitlbee here <archtaku> <archtaku> archeyDevil: weechat is amazing <archeyDevil> archtaku: eh, weechat is dead to me. Irssi is far better for me <archeyDevil> archtaku: Irssi has more stuff by default. What does weechat have that irssi doesn’t? <archeyDevil> phlux: <phlux> weechat fails at copy/pasting long lines <archeyDevil> Does it just paste? <archeyDevil> And no prompt? <thestinger> archeyDevil: vertical splits, built-in sasl, proper SSL support, etc. <thestinger> what does irssi have that weechat doesn’t? : <archtaku> archeyDevil: sensible defaults? python scripting? <kevlarman> archeyDevil: you can script weechat in python <phlux> archtaku: Proper long-line copy/pasting <kevlarman> that’s the thing i really wish i had in irssi <phlux> Try to copy a line that wraps around to a second line – it’s impossible to get it in a readable format <phlux> It generally has to split it up into multiple messages, which is stupid <phlux> Every other client on the planet can copy/paste longer lines EXCEPT for weechat. <archeyDevil> thestinger: better plugins & scripts, Less bloat. <phlux> Its formatting is absolutely pathetic. <archeyDevil> Okay, by default having the user-list is nice. got to give it that XD <phlux> No use for a user list in a text client <thestinger> phlux: you can turn off the alignment * archeyDevil doesn’t have any user-list but lots like it. <phlux> Kind of lame tbh <thestinger> you can turn off the nick list <thestinger> two /set commands <phlux> thestinger: doesn’t change the copy/paste function. <phlux> I tried all of that. <Herbstluftwm> phlux: It does, too. :p <phlux> I even had keys bound to turning the nicklist/buffer list off <phlux> Herbstluftwm: doesn’t. <archtaku> phlux: I run all my terminals in tmux and don’t really have an issue with copy/paste <Herbstluftwm> And, unlike Irssi, it won’t just truncate if it goes past the server buffer. <Tom^> what exactly does fastboot do if i add it to my kernel line ? <Herbstluftwm> phlux: Works for me. :p * archeyDevil doesn’t see why one would need a nick list unless you have a small channel. <thestinger> Tom^: I don’t think it does anything anymore <phlux> Herbstluftwm: Then you have no clue of what I’m explaining. <Tom^> thestinger mk <phlux> Because it is noted by the developer that it, in fact, is a problem. * archeyDevil has a private channel. very few people there. Sometimes I think a user-list would be nice. /names works fine though <archtaku> archeyDevil: helps when using bitlbee and you want to know who’s in a groupchat <archtaku> other than that, I leave it off for the most part * Herbstluftwm will be happy when he is done with his IRC client, then he can trash them both. <thestinger> phlux: /set weechat.look.eat_newline_glitch on <thestinger> ? <thestinger> makes it use a newline to end lines so you can copy or click urls <archeyDevil> thestinger: Also, virticle splits, you can do it I’ve done it with both tmux and screen. alt-
Feb 132012