[01:27:06] <dork> agreed [01:27:17] <ZenGuy311> it’s not immpossible but the people i know who are somewhat making it are doing some pretty unethical shit [01:27:23] <reokie> I *kinda* relate to OWS, but they are doing it wrong [01:27:34] <DavidDavidson1> ZenGuy311, what the people you know doing? [01:27:34] <ZenGuy311> fuck it .. alot of shit is illegal [01:27:44] <reokie> Weed? [01:27:52] <DavidDavidson1> what are the people you know doing* [01:27:54] <dork> my biggest regret was going into the military over college, but now i’m content with it [01:28:03] <ZenGuy311> small stuff compared to the things large corporations get away with but they have small businesses [01:28:34] <ZenGuy311> dork: you know how to operate a gun and can reasonably defend yourself.. that counts for something [01:28:46] <DavidDavidson1> ZenGuy311, like what? I’m genuinely curious. I know some small business owners that do unethical things too. [01:28:46] <dork> eh [01:28:58] <reokie> dork: do you have any student loans? [01:29:02] <reokie> Im guessing not [01:29:05] <dork> no [01:29:17] <dork> i have GI bill access and VA grant options [01:29:17] <reokie> see, that’s something to be glad about [01:29:46] <ZenGuy311> DavidDavidson1: I know one lady who was seriously considering importing cheap labor for her daycare.. she doesn’t even pay minimum wage and she has 2 of them [01:29:55] <reokie> for the average person to graduate a 4 year college, they have to almost litteraly sell their soul to the bank [01:29:58] <dork> i’m one of the few people in the US who can claim to actually do their military job in the civilian world, but out of pure luck imo [01:30:27] <mr0wl> nice [01:30:51] <ZenGuy311> do you know the shit small businesses try to do to get revenue subsidized by the government? [01:31:04] <DavidDavidson1> like what? [01:31:06] <reokie> Ive heard that’s the reason why buisnesses arent advocating strengthening the US boarder to mexico: more cheap labour 
[01:31:08] <dork> yep [01:31:31] <reokie> Illegals, or china, your choice [01:31:33] <DavidDavidson1> The fact we have millions of mexicans here is a failure [01:31:40] <ZenGuy311> i wen to community college and transfered to aa 4 year school .. i didn’t graduate but i left with more than half the credits i needed for a degree [01:31:44] <DavidDavidson1> ideally you want to have cheap labor as guest workers so that they go home eventually [01:31:45] <ZenGuy311> i need to go back next year [01:31:57] <dork> reokie: most americans bitch about job options while latinos give up everything to get to the US and are like ‘we’ll take it’ [01:31:57] <DavidDavidson1> instead we have millions of illiterate mexicans who are staying in the us and reproducing [01:32:09] <reokie> Zen: might as well finish lol [01:32:10] <dork> america’s laziness is great for the latino community [01:32:17] <ZenGuy311> is there eveidence that mexicans are illeterate? [01:32:22] <DavidDavidson1> dork, latino’s are only good at manual labor and blue collar jobs [01:32:32] <ZenGuy311> reokie: I will i’m just glad I never went into any debt [01:32:32] <galoshes> gys i am lateno [01:32:32] <dork> DavidDavidson1: i disagree [01:32:34] <DavidDavidson1> the economy is transitioning into information technology and specialized fields [01:32:48] <DavidDavidson1> Latinos right now are a massive growing underclass who will be unable to adapt to the changing economy [01:32:55] <dork> i have a profound respect for the latino community, they work hard, more family oriented than any american family [01:32:55] <ZenGuy311> dork: what about carlos slim and his telcom empire? [01:32:57] <DavidDavidson1> we fucked up big time by importing millions of these people as cheap labor [01:32:58] <dork> only to get shit on [01:32:59] <reokie> David: We have lots of CITIZENS reproducing [01:33:02] <DavidDavidson1> because we have to deal with their descendants [01:33:05] <dork> ZenGuy311: dude from mexico? [01:33:15] <dork> ZenGuy311: what he does in mexico is his shit. [01:33:16] <DavidDavidson1> reokie, we still fucked up by bringing them in. [01:33:22] <ZenGuy311> DavidDavidson1: latinos are the worker bees the worker bee’s will always be in demand [01:33:24] <DavidDavidson1> Ideally you want educated people to immigrate to your country [01:33:33] <reokie> Those with less education are stuck in the “need more kids to help with the farm” mentality [01:33:37] <dork> latinos are what america was built on [01:33:43] <DavidDavidson1> not poor brown peasants who create more high school drop outs who are only capable of doing manual labor [01:33:44] <dork> but that was so far back [01:33:52] <DavidDavidson1> look at Canada [01:33:55] <ZenGuy311> DavidDavidson1: ideally you want law abiding people immigrating to your land [01:34:02] <DavidDavidson1> their immigration program brings in millions of educated people from china, hong kong and india [01:34:18] <DavidDavidson1> we are creating a giant underclass of uneducated people here [01:34:30] <dork> most people don’t realize it but the most educated, gainfully employed latinos go to anywhere but the US for naturalization because it’s so fucking difficult [01:34:32] <DavidDavidson1> because we are addicted to cheap labor [01:34:50] <reokie> Then would it help if we educated them, thus turning them into tax paying citizens instead of leaches of social programs? [01:34:58] <dork> yes [01:35:00] <dork> of course [01:35:01] <DavidDavidson1> ZenGuy311, that doesnt change the fact that having uneducated manual laborers in your country is a disadvantage [01:35:04] <dork> that is the logical approach [01:35:10] <DavidDavidson1> the ideal immigrant is an educate person with a university degree [01:35:27] <dork> reokie: convincing the idiots that run this country that, another story [01:35:35] <dork> DavidDavidson1: they’re a dime a dozen [01:35:37] <dork> you know that? [01:36:01] <DavidDavidson1> dork, having manual labourers move here creates more dependency on welfare government, more crime, [01:36:05] <reokie> If they were educated with a university degree, I dont think they would find a need to come to the US [01:36:13] <DavidDavidson1> if we need short term labour we let them in on a guest visa and then they go away back to mexico [01:36:24] <DavidDavidson1> instead they reproduce and their children become a drag on the system [01:36:24] <dork> DavidDavidson1: only because their labor isn’t legal [01:36:32] <DavidDavidson1> dork, exactly. [01:36:44] <Sigma00> reokie: don’t be so sure [01:36:57] <ZenGuy311> DavidDavidson1: do you know that by the turn of the 20th century half of americas popluation was illiterate .. education is great but it’s state in america not as dire as you portray it to be [01:37:02] <reokie> THen again, depends on the situation :p [01:37:03] <Sigma00> I’m considering immigrating because a high-level programming job is 2k a month at most [01:37:18] <reokie> But it’s still lacking [01:37:19] <DavidDavidson1> ZenGuy311, doesnt change the fact that the children of migrant laborers tend to achieve far less than the children of engineers and scientists [01:37:21] <dork> america’s education system is FUCKED. [01:37:31] <dork> especially collegiately speaking [01:37:33] <mr0wl> yuh [01:37:38] <dork> the greatest concern is tenure [01:37:54] <archontes> that depends on the country of origin of the migrant laborers [01:38:00] <dork> i’m so glad i didn’t waste my time on college [01:38:06] <archontes> at least, according to Malcolm Gladwell [01:38:07] <DavidDavidson1> archontes, it depends on the culture of the laborers [01:38:17] <archontes> yup [01:38:19] <DavidDavidson1> I know many people from vietnam who worked like dogs and pushed their kids into university [01:38:21] <DavidDavidson1> to become engineers [01:38:24] <reokie> US test scores are dwarfed by the rest of the world, yet today’s parents still bitch about tests being too hard [01:38:26] <ZenGuy311> DavidDavidson1: do you know hwat would happen if you removed 1/3rd the manual labor in this country over night? shit would fall apart .. the same can’t be said if you removed 1/3/rd the people w<DavidDavidson1> and teachers and lawyers [01:38:29] <dork> DavidDavidson1: now they’re homeless [01:38:39] <dork> DavidDavidson1: i come across homeless vets every day [01:38:40] <DavidDavidson1> Mexicans dont give a fuck about education [01:38:42] <dork> every fucking day [01:39:03] <reokie> David: Now let’s not generalize [01:39:04] <DavidDavidson1> the culture is less academically orientated is what i mean to say. [01:39:06] <dork> ZenGuy311: i think that’s debatable [01:39:22] <DavidDavidson1> ZenGuy311, there is nothing wrong with manual labor [01:39:24] <dork> ZenGuy311: i see where you’re going but i don’t think it would have that sort of impact [01:39:32] <reokie> As a black guy I have to say that it’s the same for most african-americans as well [01:39:35] <DavidDavidson1> what I am saying is dont let these people stay in america permanently [01:39:46] <dork> reokie: i disagree [01:39:47] <ZenGuy311> DavidDavidson1: that’s nurture.. it makes sense that a child of high educated parents would more likely have a more intellectually based upbringing than a child with blue collar parents who’ve ne<DavidDavidson1> Give them temporary guest worker visas. [01:39:49] <dork> reokie: no offense [01:40:04] <DavidDavidson1> ZenGuy311, that’s what I’m saying all along. [01:40:11] <DavidDavidson1> what i’ve been saying* [01:40:19] <reokie> dork: as in our culture is not as education orriented as some others [01:40:25] <DavidDavidson1> That is why taking in migrant workers from Latin America is not good for America. [01:40:25] <__null> dont let who stay in america? [01:40:35] <__null> the 14 million illegal aliens? [01:40:36] <dork> reokie: your culture as in afro americanculture? [01:40:42] <dork> reokie: or someting else? [01:41:15] <reokie> dork: young afro-american culture. Kids around my age dont seem to care [01:41:22] <dork> wyes [01:41:38] <DavidDavidson1> __null, Ideally illegal immigrants would be kicked out and the only migrant laborers allowed in would be on a guest worker’s visa [01:41:43] <dork> i agree people of your demographic dont care [01:41:47] <dork> as well as mine [01:42:02] <diminoten> why kick them out [01:42:04] <ZenGuy311> reokie: I’m black and I knew alot of kids who were teachers pets and bookworms [01:42:08] <diminoten> why not give them a path to citizenship [01:42:27] <DavidDavidson1> the short term benefit of letting illegal immigrants in is outwayed by the strain them and their children put on the system. [01:42:30] <reokie> They seem to oust anyone who isnt trying to raise their status by anything other than being a performer [01:42:32] <__null> look, that won’t work. [01:42:33] <dork> diminoten: it would debunk everything the GOP has been saying for the past 200 years [01:42:40] <diminoten> the system is going to strain no matter what [01:42:42] <reokie> ZenGuy311: same here [01:42:48] <diminoten> they’re not going to make a difference in that regard [01:42:56] <dork> diminoten: it’s inconvenient realizing that immigrants will take shit jobs and work 10x harder than the average american [01:42:58] <__null> the most realistic way: give LPR status to illegal immigrants for a fine.. let’s say $1000 [01:43:00] <diminoten> besides, they’ll be contributing to that system if they register [01:43:10] <diminoten> there’s untold billions in taxing illegals [01:43:11] <__null> after 7 years they can naturalize if they meet the requirements [01:43:13] <dork> american’s are lazy [01:43:16] <dork> that is the bottom line [01:43:24] <diminoten> fining poor people… yeah that’s a good idea [01:43:27] <dork> they have adopted a sense of entitlement [01:43:29] <diminoten> totally works [01:43:30] <__null> it’s a realistic idea [01:43:33] <diminoten> no it’s not [01:43:34] <diminoten> it’s a joke [01:43:36] <__null> yes, it really is. [01:43:40] <reokie> dork: more that illegals are cheap, plus that [01:43:41] <diminoten> absolutely not [01:43:43] <__null> look, i have 7 years experience in immigration law [01:43:44] <__null> what do you have? [01:43:45] <diminoten> no one wants to or will pay [01:43:50] <__null> yes, they will [01:43:51] <DavidDavidson1> __null, illegal immigrants do a great amount of harm to the country [01:43:52] <__null> they did in 2004 [01:43:53] <dork> reokie: cheap and they do excellent work [01:43:55] <__null> and 1996 [01:43:56] <diminoten> __null how? [01:44:01] <diminoten> economy wasn’t shit then [01:44:03] <DavidDavidson1> Give them temporaray guest worker status for a few years and then return them to Mexico [01:44:11] <__null> how? they paid $800 to become a citizen [01:44:12] <DavidDavidson1> or Guatemala or wherever [01:44:14] <__null> well, LPR [01:44:20] <diminoten> __null no they didn’t [01:44:20] <dork> reokie: i’d hire an illegal latino to do work than an american ANY time. [01:44:21] <__null> Bush killed that provision of the INA [01:44:21] <diminoten> they’re illegals [01:44:31] <zeezey> diminoten nou [01:44:36] <__null> you are just too smart to argue with, diminoten. even if the law and history says different [01:44:43] <diminoten> __null what?? [01:44:49] <zeezey> lool [01:44:54] <zeezey> wtf u guise arguing about [01:44:54] <diminoten> that was fast [01:44:54] <DavidDavidson1> dork, no one is saying illegal immigrants dont work harder than americans [01:44:57] <__null> tell me, what does INA stand for diminoten? [01:45:04] <zeezey> dork how are u still alive [01:45:04] <__null> and have you ever read it? [01:45:05] <DavidDavidson1> americans are lazy as fuck [01:45:06] <diminoten> it’s an act [01:45:13] <dork> zeezey: [01:45:14] <__null> because i’ve read it [01:45:14] <zeezey> DavidDavidson1 no shit [01:45:15] <__null> more than once. [01:45:16] <diminoten> so? [01:45:17] <dork> zeezey: [01:45:20] <diminoten> I’ve read the bible [01:45:20] <dork> oops [01:45:21] <zeezey> dork [01:45:22] <diminoten> more than once [01:45:23] <dork> zeezey: ? [01:45:24] <zeezey> dork [01:45:28] <reokie> More that americans feel entitled [01:45:29] <diminoten> I’m not a bible scholar because of it [01:45:30] <Paimun> (01:45:50)
Nov 262011